Why you go private???? We know youre all going to vegas. Hoes move one way.

A legend, married to Katy Dierlam (RIP), actress, SA activist, and an actual fat lady in Coney Island's Sideshows by the Seashore. I stumbled across that issue Renegade Romance as a teenager in the 80s and it was the first time I'd seen feedism depicted anywhere. I'd had the fetish since I was a little kid didn't even have a name for it yet (and wouldn't for another decade or so). My Dimensions magazines are all gone but I think I still have the comic, I'll try to find it this weekend.

>>47629 Thanks, trying to see if it was the first/second issue

SA?

>>47634 Sexual assault. She was pro people rights and freedoms from frivolous prosecution.

>>47636 I think in this context it might actually be a Size Acceptance activist. I know that was a trend before the Body Positivity and HAES movements.

>>47637 No, the body positivity movement didn’t start for some number of years. She broke major ground on relieving puritanical laws restricting romantic behavior.

>>47633 It was the second issue. >>47634 Size acceptance >>47636 WTF are you talking about >>47637 >>47638 The term "SA" for size acceptance wasn't used while she was still around but she was an advocate for fat people in general a la NAAFA (National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, which began in the early 70s).

>>47640 ~*Size Acceptance*~ is an anachronism, it is some millennial Instagram hashtag that existed decades after this woman’s lifelong work legalized various forms of “Sexual Assault”.

>>47642 I pray someone sexually assaults you with a claw hammer.

>>47647 What wrong with you?

>>47640 > NAAFA (National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, which began in the early 70s). Factually incorrect back in the late 60s it was called the Fat Liberation Unified Front (FLUF) who fought previous laws misdefining crushing and feeding as assault.

Back on track, anyone willing to post the story from Renegade romance 2 here or any other art Ned Sonntag drew?

Found it... 4/7 >>47651 You're a troll or a schizo, I don't care, both should die of cancer but first be rendered deaf, blind, mute, and without use of their limbs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_to_Advance_Fat_Acceptance >>47648 What's wrong is that I'm trying to have a discussion about Ned Sonntag and you're schizoing all over it with weird ass random slander about his wife "legalizing sexual assault."

the rest...

>>47678 Big salary or enjoy my summer overfeed regardless hmmm

so with that done, anyone want to put up other pieces Ned Sonntag drew? Or any other comic stories he did?

>>47682 >so with that done Gratitude lol. I have the comic, I didn't need to share it with your neurodivergent ass. Why don't you go find some of Ned's shit and post it yourself rather than begging?

>>47651 >>47642 >>47640 Wow, I’m learning so much on this site. These are the tidbits of history I missed out on. Seems like some people today still view our fetishes as assault. These are the times we live in I guess.

>>47677 >>47647 You sound unhinged buddy.

>>47647 > I pray someone sexually assaults you with a claw hammer. That’s still violent assault regardless of legality of SA. No ones fight for the freedom of unilateral claw hammer violence.

>>47697 Hand gun in driver door.

>>47698 I’ve never seen someone so fragile over a civil conversation between two history buffs.

>>47700 Words scare you? Thats what we call it actions.

>>47695 Thank you for being civil, unlike some buttholes here.

Asking for images is common on this site. And attacking me isn't cool, all I was doing was asking for images, that doesn't mean you should use slurs on me. For Ned Sonntag he contributed some early FA art and stories. For NAAFA, I heard it was initially FAs looking for fat women happy with their size. Over time it became what it is now. I do wonder what their current stance is on FAs, if it's we're bad guys for loving plump women solely for their looks or is it neutral, just as long as we don't act like total pervs and find reasons to love women beyond their looks, they don't mind us. For us being compared to rapists, just a common tactic to vilify those who sexual preferences are different from the norm. Whether it's how gay people are pedos, or BDSM enthusiasts want to abuse their partners. Stuff like Feed or Springer type shows want to show how outrageous and crazy we are. The story is we want to hurt our partners, we only want to fatten them up to immobility and make them dependent on us. According to them we want to emotionally abuse our partners into becoming fat into being worthy of our love, if they don't gain weight, then we'll leave them. They likely believe we all want immobility because this what the documentaries focus on and what they think we want from looking at our fiction. This adds for more weird subculture when they focus on those in our circles that want to fatten up their partners and how we find that a sexy goal. They never want FAs that practice that as a fantasy or how want their partners to be fat/fit, that doesn't make for entertaining TV. Now the FAs who give their partners junk food 24/7 and 5 meals a day to reach the 1,000 lb goal and celebrating immobility makes for more entertaining TV. Is anyone willing to admit that while we may get off on immobility or write/draw fiction where women reach it, it's more a fantasy? It's not something you will do IRL? It's like thinking a BDSM enthusiast wants to be raped or commit rape or being in an abusive relationship because of their fantasies. They may want to enact scenarios as a sex fantasy not something to do in their day to day lives.

I am neurodivergent, just looking for other stuff to talk about here beyond just the comic story uploaded here.

Just thought it would be interesting to talk about a figure in the early FA scene and how it has changed from magazines and underground comics to the modern internet and to see art that he has drawn.

I figure too if the villification of FAs is how society views fatness. A lot of movies and shows show the horrors of the obesity epidemic. How we are getting bigger and fatter. How the fat has transformed and disfigured us. How it makes people prisoners in their own homes. The horrors how this is the future if we don't stop eating, why we shouldn't order a triple stack burger, a XXL soda and a mega order of fries. They are probably horrified that we eroticize these scenarios they show as scary. That we get off on getting bigger and fatter and of people becoming immobile. We enjoy seeing fatties in documentaries being fat. They probably think this is what we want with all our partners IRL. That we want them to become the immobile fatties in documentaries and treat it as a sex fantasy come to life. As I said, dealing with actual reality is boring for these shows. They need outrageous situations, they need people that are weird and live weird lives. The story of the FA who has his girlfriend be Fat/Fit and not immobile is boring. The guy who is feeding his girlfriend 5 meals a day and weighs her and chronicles her weight gain journey to 1,000 lbs. is far more outrageous and interesting.

>>47719 >For us being compared to rapists, just a common tactic to vilify those who sexual preferences are different from the norm. Whether it's how gay people are pedos, or BDSM enthusiasts want to abuse their partners. And here’s where the pro-SA activists really fought to explains peoples freedoms from frivolous persecution.

>>47677 >>47678 I dewarped it and put it into a PDF. https://we.tl/t-Qp0Jq50hTO

>>47677 >>47678 Now that I actually read the story, I think you might have missed page 5. Care to upload it?

BRO I REMEMBER GETTING A DIMENSIONS MAGAZING FROM PATRICIAS IGA IN COLUMBIA MISSOURI WAAAAAY BACK IN THE DAY LIKE 2005 AND NED HAD A COMIC. CANT GET MY CAPS LOCK OFF SORRY

>>47731 Oh oops... Here it is. I fixed the warp and contrast myself as penance. Thanks for putting together the PDF, and your service in harrassing what's now unfortunately the 10th or 11th most annoying troll on this site. >>47720 >I am neurodivergent No shit. One who's wired well enough to be offended by my posts yet you don't have your shit together enough to cough up a "thanks" when someone goes out of their way to fulfil your request.

Is OP STCChristopher from Curvage? Same exact vibes lmao.

Turns out I had a few old Dimensions as PDFs and I found a few more Ned contributions. These first three gave me a laugh — you young'uns likely don't remember pay-per-minute 900 numbers. 4 and 5 are story illustrations.

More Ned from Dims: 1-3 is a mini comic and no, I don't have the issue with the rest of it. Unfortunately. 4 is a spot for a some quickie fatfic. >>47766 Thanks for the heads up. I don't recognize the handle but now I'll know to preemptively block them.

>>47767 My uncle made millions during the dotcom era. Why you edomite institutional think you're the only fulfillable of life luxuries. Life is amazing without or without. That a look leveling up regardless hoe.

>>47764 Great! Here's the complete thing as a PDF: https://we.tl/t-xz16V2rSf8 And thanks for appreciating my work. I hope I'm not one of the 9 or 10 most annoying.

>>47770 Nah but this one staying blocked lol

>>47651 >>47642 >>47636 Ned was a pro assault advocate?!? Or just his girl? Eitherway that’s big if true.

I just asked what was meant by SA when asking about the late Katy Dierlam and someone calling her an SA. The debate of the term ranged from Sexual Assault to Size Advocate. Then it went into how before the term Body Positive, SA was used. Then just snowballed into this whole debate. I imagine yeah Ned and Katy advocated for better rights for plus-sized people.

I haven't heard if Sontag did a Bill Cosby or if Katy did assault. I just don't want this to become speculation and attack on a man who didn't do whatever people accuse him of. Before we start accusing people of assault, we need proof, is there evidence that they did this and is there someone who can admit to having these things done to them? Can we verify their story? Just don't want this to become us attacking a man who may not have done whatever people accuse him of.

>>48259 >>48252 >>48258 Concerning.

>>48259 > I haven't heard if Sontag did a Bill Cosby or if Katy did assault A) Bill Cosby is innocent and has been set free. B) Cosby just had sex with his date after she was too greedy with the foreplay pills and passed out early. C) This is one form of SA we need to legalize and why these sorta toonish advocacy’s are important

>>48263 >>48264 I just use Cosby in terms of if Sonntag did Sexual assault. Just cause nothing comes up doesn't mean he is guilty. We just need to acknowledge that he's innocent and claiming that he isn't just starts the rumor mill grinding. He is innocent. Cosby got off on a technicality. Loads of women have filed complaints against Cosby, but due to statute of limitations and the fact most women would be scared to speak up against him, he is legally innocent. But we should acknowledge that he is a scumbag. We shouldn't legalize assault, just acknowledge that it is a horrible crime. Overall, we should just focus on uploading more Sonntag art and stories here.

>>48298 >Overall, we should just focus on uploading more Sonntag art and stories here. Great idea! Now be the change you want to see. So far you've done absolutely zilch except start this thread. At least offer up something postive about him and his late wife, both of whom were active in the movement for fat rights and the mainstreaming of love for big women. They did this back when basically all of society was virulently and sometimes violently against it. Insrtead you've continued, day after day, to perpetuate the insane idea that somehow I meant "SA" — a super common term, particularly among people in the fat community — to mean that Katy Dielam was an "advocate of sexual assault." THIS IS NOT A THING, and it is obvious to anyone with a fucking brain this is not what I meant. Attaching someone's name to a crime with no evidence is an incredibly irresponsible and awful thing to do. Perpetuating it and taking it seriously is almost as bad. If you guys are too neurodivergent/just plain retarded to use the internet without slandering innocent people then step away for the sake of humanity. Go play with blocks or learn your colors.

>>48392 Dude way to shift the goalposts entirely. There’s two sides to every conversation and your aggressiveness and misleading tactics is not helping.

>>43892 I was just calling out individuals who claimed that Sonntag and/or his late wife advocated for sexual assault. I can buy them supporting Fat rights. I am autistic, saying that someone neurodivergent lies and attacks people all the time isn't cool. I wasn't attacking Ned, if anything, I was calling out people who would make baseless claims against him on this site. I do think to get back on track, if anyone has any other art he did for magazines/comics/etc.

>>48401 Dude way to post without adding anything to the actual topic except cliches and retardation. Yet again the schizos and short bus riders have derailed what could have been a cool, on-topic post. Have fun obsessing on rape when you could be celebrating a brilliant artist and his wife, an OG SIZE ACCEPTANCE celeb.

All we're trying to do is be civil yet we get idiots yelling at us.

>>48407 It took time to find, photograph, and upload that comic YOU ASKED FOR and you barely acknowledged it. Same for Halt De Fresse, who fixed the scans and made them into a PDF. Then I posted a bunch more stuff that's hard to find online and you don't even acknowledge it — just ask for more shit like a cartoon robot. That's not "neurodiversity" — that's called "being a fucking asshole." I'm not looking for thanks or praise, trust me. I just thought maybe you'd want to vibe about... Ned Sonntag, not some schizo troll bullshit about "advocating for sexual assault."

>>48412 Just one idiot, and the only person contributing actual content here and trying to discuss Ned Sonntag rather than rape.

I am trying to find comics Sonntag did, but so far just some Scooby Doo, and Betty Boop comics he did. Also learned he worked on Howard the Duck (the comic series) and Hulk 2099. Doubt these would be of interest to anyone here. No way they would let him get away with plus-size women in these works. I am trying to find underground stuff he did. It's just since most of these works are anthologies that can have different creators for different stories in different issues, it can take a while to find out what stories he did for which issue and series.

If I ask, this is because finding information regarding underground comics is tricky and finding out who wrote and drew specific stories can be a while.

The other question is even if I find underground comix Sonntag did, how do I know he did BBW stories? That he didn't draw someone else's stories?

>>48414 >>48415 >>47647 I think you’re being kinda harsh here. It’s hard to stay on topic when you’re on the war path posting paragraphs of personal attacks and calls to violence.

>>48414 >>48422 >>48392 It's not fair to call me a retard, or a shithead or whatever childish insult you want to throw out. All I'm doing is just focusing on Ned Sonntag art and why it can be hard to find such art.

>>48432 No, you've actually written more about "sexual assault" than Sonntag and you've contributed nothing otherwise. You just asked for stuff and when you got it you all but ignored it. It can be pretty frustrating to deal with someone like that and I make no apologies. >>48429 Nigga, please. I contributed all kinds of content and info and an obvious schizo post derailed the whole thing. At which point the OP and others made this a useless, needless discussion of whether two innocent people, one deceased, might have "advocated for sexual assault" based on NOTHING. This is bizarre, toxic behavior that's way worse than a little negative hyperbole on my part. Focus on substance rather than style and you'll see I'm right.

In that case, I'll stop mentioning assault, it's just from dealing with trolls. I just mentioned why it can be hard to find art from him, I can find certain pieces easily, but stories he did for magazines or underground comics can be more elusive. As I said, finding scans can be hard, it can also be hard to know if he wrote and drew a story, or if he just drew someone else's work. Since some of this work like the Midnite Snack story was written under an alias, it can be hard to know if he did something for a story unless one does oodles of research. As I said, he did work on Scooby Doo, Betty Boop and Hulk 2099. I bring this up to help those searching for his art so they know what to expect and what to ignore. As well as what stuff from his portfolio to focus on. I may ask about underground comix he worked on, and if any of them have BBWs.

https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/people/4604/ned-sonntag This includes a list of comics he worked on and I wonder if scans of them could be uploaded here. Again, since most of the stuff could be lost or require a bit of work to find, that's why I ask. To see if in some hard drive somewhere, is lost art waiting to find a new audience. Or an obscure story waiting to be enjoyed.

>>48465 >I contributed all kinds of content No man. You photocopied Ned’s work and pirated it here. Otherwise all you’ve contributed is constant r-slurs and n-words in addition to needless aggression.

I have been looking for BBW stuff by Sonntag but have turned up nothing so far.

Last thing left to check is if issue 2 of Cloud Comix has a bbw story.

>>48487 You seem pretty decent. So, I’m not the bigot with a xerox machine, but if you’d like to see what the CONTENT CREATORS want to share with you, try his personal website or tumblr. Both are his name.

>>48488 Also the stories had writers. If you’d rather not steal their work: https://www.deviantart.com/wilsonb/art/The-Haunting-of-Trisha-207013469

>>48465 >>48414 >>48407 >>48392 While zealous advocacy is the cornerstone of good representation, you have to temper it with a judicious recognition of optic surrounding one’s conduct, particularly in cases such as this. The utilization of inflammatory language, laden with ableist and racial slurs, not only undermines the credibility of Ned’s defense but also risks alienating potential sympathizers. We must resist the temptation to silence or dismiss testimony merely for the sake of preserving our favorite artists work. >>48486 Copywriter infringement is another big accusation, however unlike above, there is a degree of unambiguous evidence to support charges related to IP theft and misappropriation.

>>48490 You're aware 99% of this site is sharing copyrighted work, right? Might want to ride that high horse out of here before you violate your own ethics.

>>48488 It doesn't, and even if it did, damned if I'm sharing it with a bunch of toxic nutjobs. Finally learned my lesson.

>>48498 Dear Oliver Wendel Homeless: In your over-articulated, sophistry-saturated explorations of the finer points of jurisprudence, check out the phrase "style over substance." It's perjorative, and in the present context implies that using bad words in defense of truth and moral clarity is preferable to toeing the PC line whilst engaging in actionable slander. That is, going nuclear on schizos accusing innocent people of advocating sexual assault is more than justified. Anyone who can't make that distinction at a glance will never be an ally and I won't pander to their moral derangement.

>>48542 Cant hang out with ppl who got poor pockets & poor minds. $100 isnt the same to everyone.

>>48543 They will make u poor in the head. Its a diease stay away from poor minded ppl with closed minds.

>>48491 Check out the Fair Use clause in US copyright law. It includes "criticism and commentary" as exceptions, and this thread qualifies. Beyond that I guarantee if I contacted Ned or Wilson (both of whom I've corresponded with in the past) they would be fine with me sharing their 30+ year old content here as long as it was properly attributed. Furthermore: Renegade Romance has been out of print for years. When I bought my copy ca. 1989, from a comic shop, Ned presumably still received royalties for it. But at this point you wouldn't be putting a dime in his pocket by scoring one on eBay or wherever. Thus posting it here makes zero difference. Same with Barbers. Dimensions Magazine is also out of print and so there's no harm to him either for reprinting his story here. That he's posted much of his stuff on DA for free tells you where his head is at.

>>48545 I think Ned should have some say in if a bigot dropping racial slurs should be sharing his work with pirates and thieves. It gives the impression that Ned was pro-white supremacy if not pro sexual assault (which hasn’t been proven one way or the other).

>>48547 Go ahead — contact him and state your case, you hot flaming piece of shit. I'm sure he'll love that you're keeping this sexual assault insanity going. You'll be the hero you've always wanted to be, rather than the rank disappointment you are.

>>48551 No boss. You’re the one who keeps bringing up accusations of sexual assault. The more some chauvinistic asshole like you screams “justice for Johnny” the more regular folk raise an eyebrow and wonder if those accusations have merit. It’s call the Streisand effect. I’m sure you’re a big fan of Barbara buddo. 🍉

>>48554 Hey look, a Nazi NEET. Can't keep that prejudice in your pants, oops. I bet you'd be right out there on campus if your "social anxiety" didn't keep you locked in your bedroom.

>>48554 I know a guy that makes 400k per year. Screams.. your salary doesnt determine if you " scream " or not people are stupid the more you argue with them instead of removing yourself from the room. Guess what room of clowns. Dont argue with them. they will never make as much as us🤙

>>48557 I'm just here to share the good word about Ned and spread some racism, bigotry, chauvinism, ableism, embolism, and whatever other words this virgin throws around like the Cheeto crumbs that litter his keyboard. Right now his parents are debating whether to pay for another semester of online coding training or give him an ultimatum to apply for that job at Subway. He's 31 after all and never even had a date.

>>48559 > I bet you'd be right out there on campus if your "social anxiety" didn't keep you locked in your bedroom. > Cheeto crumbs that litter his keyboard. I thought your tribe was supposed to be good at comedy? This shits less funny than Seinfeld.

>>48561 Not trying to be funny, you're a pathetic loser and I'm documenting it. Seinfeld was a very funny show. Maybe the humor didn't land because you hate Jews. Tell me more about how you're anti-bigotry though.

>>48565 >>48564 You two belong together. Two lonely members of the mayo militia.

>>48567 >>48567

>>48568 Jesus christ I knew it was you. Stay far away.

>>48545 According to Ned, he claimed that the comic publishers owed him $800 and he isn't enjoying royalties for his story. It was a short story in an Underground anthology. A lot of his stuff was art for Dimensions or underground publications. It's hard to ask us to find it when it's work that would be out of print and/or expensive to buy.

"According to cartoonist Ned Sonntag, Renegade owes him $800 for his eight-page “Midnite Snack” contribution to Renegade Ro- mance #2, which he submitted in April 1988 expecting June publication and payment shortly thereafter. Renegade Romance #2 was ultimately released in late December 1988."

>>48564 > Seinfeld was a very funny show. Who could have imagined you’d be defending a PROLIFIC PEDOPHILE 🇮🇱 and advocate of sexual assault. Seriously, dude was 40 years old and busy raping high schoolers. Fuck off, any decent culture protects children from people like you. You got a strange sense of morality buddy.

>>48574 Its his wife. Look at the hostility lol

>>48575 >It’s his wife. Look at the hostility lol You’re an idiot without access to Google. It was a teen. Keep advocating for sexually assaulting minors you human filth. He even documented himself as a pedo on the show, but ok buddy: https://twitter.com/night_owlll/status/1785338235763224965

Jerry Seinfeld and his questionable dating life has nothing to do with Sonntag, I'm just asking if anyone has any work he did and talking about why it can be hard to find work he did given the nature of underground comix.

>>48574 Seinfeld was a funny show, I don't care about Jerry Seinfeld's personal life. Neither do you, really. What's undeniably funny is the lengths you'll go to justify your childish, batshit world view. >>48567 >mayo militia I would bet my house you're white and have no black friends. This is all projection and the sad/cringy part is that you don't even realize how transparent you are.

>>48572 Which is why you should show a little gratitude when you ask for something rare and unavailable like the Renegade comic and someone coughs it up for you.

>>48625 So criticism of pedophilia is antisemitism now? (Makes sense based on everything we know about Israel’s lax prosecution of pedophilia.)

>>48630 No, putting an Israeli flag after your accusations is anti-Semitic. As is accusing Israel of tolerating pedophilia, which it doesn't. The fact you're repeating such nonsense tells me you've been hanging out in Nazi forums. Not to mention your obsession with pedophilia — bringing it up even when it has no bearing on the topic at hand — is most likely projection, which is pretty typical. You've shown us what you are, just own it. You'll fit right in with all the other anti-Semitic underachievers. People who are accomplished don't feel the need to tear down other groups of people.

>>48632 Oy vey I wonder who could be behind this post

>>48632 > putting an Israeli flag after your accusations is anti-Semitic Ohh, so CBS is antisemitic for documenting the world’s top destination for child molesters like Seinfeld? A country that constantly advocates for sexual assault same as you have multiple times.

Can we stop talking about Seinfeld and how Jews are somehow pedos!!! This is about Ned Sonntag, about art he did and comics he wrote/drew for. Not about Seinfeld, not about him being a pedo, just about an artist who set things for future BBW artists.

>>48634 You posted the headline instead of a link to the article because the article itself does not say Israel is "lax in its prosection of pedophilia." It says Jewish pedophiles are exploting Israel's Right to Return to escape authorities in their own countries. That could apply to murderers, drug dealers, white collar criminals, and so on. But given your obsession, you landed on pedophilia. Huh. Maybe you're responding to the claim from the (Jewish) head of a (Jewish) US anti-pedophilia organization who's frustrated by the lack of prioritization from Israeli AND US law enforcement. There's nothing about Israel "advocating for sexual assault." There's nothing about Israel being "the top destination for child molesters" because it isn't. You're desperate and sad. Get a job. >>48633 Congrats Sherlock Holmes, for sussing out the guy who already admitted he was Jewish, several times. >>48635 If you'd had any sense you'd have told the "sexual assault advocate" schizos and this guy to fuck off, rather than humoring them and saying "maybe it's true." Too late now.

>>48636 Dude just shit up. No one cares about your shitty AI “art”.0

>>48648 >>48636 With cases such as this: derivative, low quality, AI art, the potential repercussions of endorsing your work in light of allegations of sexual assault and hate speech far outweighs any perceived artistic merit. While it’s true Jerry Seinfeld did date a 17 year old, it’s important to note that it was legally permissible. However the ethical implications of supporting your art in the face of such allegations cannot be overlooked.

>>48648 I draw my own stuff. You're working with bad info.

>>48559 We salute you for your work. Do you have the rest of this story? I only have a couple of weight gain sequence. I think it was Dimensions 1993

Looks like it was done by AI and not something by Sonntag

>>48649 >>48674 Baseless accusations like this have no place on the Chan. Begone trolls.

I wasn't trolling, even if it wasn't AI, it doesn't resemble sonntag's style. I wasn't trying to belittle or insult.

>>48671 It just lacks the little details and flourishes of Ned's art from Underground Comix and stuff like Dimensions. It just appeared to have elements like what I see in AI art, not that it's ugly or gross, it is serviceable and fine just pointing out if it may not be Sonntag art. Even if it was by another artist, it isn't Sonntag art.

>>48679 Maybe there is really a Ned Sontag or a Kisame. IDK. All this just looks like another deviant artists trying to promote his patreon with a viral marketing stunt.

Sonntag is real, he did work for underground comix, and dimensions and has a Blog and twitter.

>>48680 Kisame here. Art nowadays is data driven. There's no human element to art.

>>48680 I am also dyslexic so I cannot read well

>>48679 I flat out don't understand why this site brings up Kisame. People nowadays use AI to make art cause they don't want to hire artists. Data driven results only increased cause nobody wants artists with their pro Hamas screeds.

>>48635 Ned isn't underground. He's a cartoon boomers from the 70s and Pratt. The 70s was a trashy time. Guy doesn't live in Eric Adams NY, which is just a less intelligent Bloomberg with late liberals. Politics aside, times have changed. The guy in these pics is what the stereotypical expansion protagonist was before anime took over. As for Seinfeld, he's just Long Island trailer trash like Howard Stern. They all date 16 year olds. These teen titcows are so shallowly dressed that there's sometimes I am glad I am schizo as to not interact with them. I just think 70s expansion man is making a comeback because people are tired of Japanese protagonists having no personality or being wangsty, making the guy who just watches and helps the expanded woman more down to earth.

I don't doubt the definition of underground comix can vary, like was it stuff from San Francisco in the 60's? Or would it be stuff from the 60's-70's? I guess for why I used underground was short anthology stuff that focus on sex, drugs, etc. Some of the titles he worked on were underground titles, but these titles sadly had no BBWs.

>>48711 Expansion is underground in the sense of not being published by DC or Marvel which were censored at the time, or conforming to society.

Underground comix got their name from the fact that it wasn't just done by smaller publishers and gave creators more freedom, but also being sold in special shops and you'd need to ask a clerk for it. I suppose the term underground also meant stuff that wasn't mainstream. Most of the stuff was known for being straight up porn, though drug use and violence could also occur. Some stuff would be slice of life type stuff.

I sometimes wonder if Patreon artists could be seen as the modern equivalent to this. Creators who make porn and short stories with their original characters. The difference is how fans can commission them for work, or vote in future projects. They can also get feedback and notes from fans. Though most underground artists tend to be explicit with their subject matter. Artists on Patreon vary, some do explicit stuff, some will do nudity at most, some having bikini pics to the furthest they do something sexy. What they do now is also different, most Underground comix would be vanilla by today's standards. Some stuff had the earliest furry stuff. Nowadays there's furries, BDSM artists, BBW art, Muscle Babe, etc.

>>48711 Underground comics were called this because they were often sold in subway newsstands under the ground.

Perhaps it's fair to say that the way one would have multiple ways to get underground comics that wouldn't be the way one would get a mainstream comic. Either from a store where one would need to ask the clerk for a copy and present ID (the days when you needed an ID to get porn). I am trying to see why selling it in subways underground would be an option, what if the city doesn't have a subway station? I thought certain shops carrying the titles and hiding them out of sight would make sense for why they're called underground comics.

>>48725 When I was growing up plenty of comic shops were subterranean basement apartments. Back before Disney and MCU made comic book culture cool.

>>48727 Nobody watches Marvel or Disney. They can't sell or market Superheroes to save their lives. Part of it is due to actors doing multiple projects or abandoning America for the imaginary Chinese middle class.

>>48731 Marvel is bad. They can't even sell Jean Grey pregnant on Disney Plus as Only Fans light. Their diversity hires don't like the comic books, frustrating investors

>>48671 That's not Ned's, though thanks for the salute. >>48674 Yup. >>48676 Trolling is posting AI bullshit that doesn't resemble Ned's style at all. >>48679 Yup. >>48711 Ned came along slightly after the big late 60s/early 70s comix movement (Crumb, Wilson, Griffin, Rodriguez, etc), though he was definitely influenced by them. We chatted about Crumb once, they were acquaintances.

>>48813 > We chatted about Crumb once, they were acquaintances. No way in hell this happened. Teens trolling us by making shit up again.

>>48813 Kisame here. That crude style of cartooning made by Ned is not popular anymore. I guess computes are wanting WG because the new Stellar Blade-Nier style is boring cause it's sleek and designed to show off the PS5's hardware.

>>48816 Like I said, that temperamental style NY is known for is not popular. People want to be milquetoast now.

I could see Sonntag and Crumb interacting now and again. I am sad that we didn't get a collaboration between the two given their similar tastes. I would say Sonntag loved his women bigger than Crumb. Plus Crumb seemed to love pushing the envelope so to speak in terms of what offensive stuff he'd put in his stories. Sonntag didn't seem like he wanted to push it anymore than any other underground comix creator. The difference between a creator willing to put out standard explicit material and one who puts incest and straight up rape in their stories.

>>48818 > that temperamental style NY is known for is not popular. People want to be milquetoast That NY style is overhyped and out of touch. Ohio makes the best pizza, not even kidding. Chicago milktoast is a close second.

>>48826 I dunno, the point I meant was that trashy style people associate with the East Coast is not approved. Nobody wants to see the fat person on the Jerry Springer show fight whatever heel they found

I figured if Sonntag and Crumb worked on a BBW story, they would have conflicting ideas even though their tastes are similar. I could see Sonntag doing the standard stuff: Woman finds herself putting on weight and becoming comfortable being a fatty, is already fat or doesn't notice how fat she is and then a man who notices and loves her for her plump figure. Crumb would try to be vulgar and over the top. Probably go for woman force fed against her will to be bed bound and is horrified and upset she's obese/bedbound, she is insulted for her size and sad and broken. Or fat woman is roofied and dude does stuff to her. Or the woman is the dude's mom or sister. As I said, Crumb wanted to push the boundaries and revel in what depraved messed up stuff he could envision. Beyond just standard porn, some people are like this, they could reference sex stuff, dark humor, pedophilia, just to get a rise out of people. If anyone goes into rants about these things after this, you're only proving my point. I figured if he and Sonntag worked, Sonntag wouldn't want this just figured the two would fight. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe Crumb would tone things down and figure that a story of massively fat women wearing little to no clothing and getting it on with men who find them sexy to be provocative enough on its own.

>>48842 Especially if they intentionally gain weight, embrace eating a lot of food, embrace their size and own wearing little to no clothing. What we are into and normally put out could be provocative enough as is and wouldn't need more stuff to be more boundary pushing.

>>48842 >>48843 They both push the envelope by diving deep into their own sexuality but I actually don't think they're compatible. For one thing I don't think Crumb is an FA. He likes big legs and asses, big women in general, but he likes them firm and athletic. You've never seen him draw a girl with a fat, flabby belly, at least not as a sex object. His first wife Dana was plump but he admits he married her because she was the first woman who was ever interested in him. His second wife Aline was more of classic Crumb gal, thin on top, thick legs and ass (as a young woman at least) but not fat-fat. Meanwhile Sonntag is a chubby chaser down to his DNA. He's all about huge bellies, fat rolls, double chins, etc. As I mentioned earlier his wife was an actual sideshow fat lady. I like Crumb's taste in women and think he's an amazing artist but I find most of his sex stuff grotesque rather than erotic. Basically he's a misogynist (as he's admitted) and so his work is sadistic. You're right that Sonntag is way less of a button-pushe. While he's obsessed with fat women in the same way Crumb is with big asses, his fantasies are more sensual and female-centric. I'd go so far as to say he worships fat women, where unlike Crumb you never see them degraded. Even in a comic like the Renegade Romance entry, the feedism is mutual and the guy is saving the woman from society's expectations. He's not force-feeding her to death.

>>48850 I love when I tell ppl shit. Then watch the up tick on bbwchan. I hate black people. Proud to be spanish.

>>48850 I guess I was right, the two creators while similar would be too different to make something that would appeal to FAs. I guess yeah the difference between loving a woman like Ashley graham over boberry. Plus yeah Crumb never did feedism, he was more into chubby/curvy well built women over superfat obese ones. Maybe to say he was a light FA over one we are? What would we call someone who was into slightly plump women over overweight/obese ones?

What would you say makes Sonntag more sensual and female-centric?

>>48863 >What would we call someone who was into slightly plump women over overweight/obese ones? Normal? lol >>48867 The poses, their facial expressions and body language, the line quality — Ned's smooth and fine, Crumb's heavily crosshatched with lots of blunt lines. But especially the situations. I've seen a fair amount of both artists' work and never saw Ned put a woman, say, on all fours with her ass up, a gag in her mouth and a guy riding her ass like a pony. 95% of Crumb's women are either naive or outright dumb, pushy, and/or satanic (sometimes literally). Ned's gals are queens, priestesses, goddesses, adventurers, etc. Even if they're outright sex objects they're smiling and seem to be in control of the situation.

>>48874 Rick ross dont write his own music. Not good with names.

>>48874 > 95% of Crumb's women are either naive or outright dumb, pushy, and/or satanic (sometimes literally). Sounds like a decent artist aka Picasso. > Ned's gals are queens, priestesses, goddesses, adventurers, etc. Simp harder bro. This shit is lame.

I can see that now, cause one critique of underground comix is that the women were sex props in male fantasies. They don't mind being near nude or full nude or sleeping with any man that approaches them. The story could also do as I said show straight up rape. I wanted to know how Sonntag did it and how one arguably could have women in a sexy work without them just being solely sex props. I guess I was wondering what the term should be for someone who enjoys women that are a little plump but not obese.

>>48898 Kisame here, no. Characters in expansion back then were sex props because of the limitations of the magazine format. Just like Tifa, Mai, Chun Li, Ihora, and Laura Croft. Nobody asked for a serious discussion. The problem will always be that adults have too much demands that cannot be met. Just look at how FF7 can't sell the PS5 cause gamers are disinterested in the story, or Zelda in leggings can't move the Switch past lethargy.

>>48874 That's because Crumb's entire family was schizo painters. Somehow R.Crumb was normal one. Ned is trained by Pratt Institute which trains people in classical liberal arts which is a mix of European and American design. It's not SUNY or Briarciffe, or those for profit film schools that are centred in Manhattan

>>48898 There’s a lot of non-consenting situations (e.g. ghostly possession) that make it very much pro sexual assault if not outright rape. It can be seen as a distinctly pre-alt-right-manosphere proto-incel culture of objectifying cartoons of easily victimized women for sexual fantasy.

Ned is fairly active on Tumblr still, at least as a lurker. Man likes em BIG BIG (i mean, same here). Often likes my USSBBW posts. Wish he'd post more often, always happy to reblog

>> It's interesting to compare it to the incel/manosphere since many of the creators supported the counter culture. Or maybe it's fair to say the guys like Crumb liked the parts of free love that meant men being able to pursue their sexual fantasies but not so their partners. They may have been willing to push buttons but probably weren't outright Neo-Nazis.

>>48905 > pro sexual assault I read somewhere that the underground comic artists were advocating for sexual assault at to various times.

>>48905 Like Is says, women in early expansion were sex props. I think they're making a comeback because people are tired of Nomura, Kishimoto, Kubo, Oda, not knowing how to write female characters properly that old characters seem more genuine. The guy just seems genuine as opposed to the Japanese protagonist being some kind of demon king, bandit, or self insert.

>>48909 Not really. People have higher standards for female characters nowadays. It's just that no one, not even women, want to make female action heroes, causing boomers to blame underground comix for not bending the knee to DEI. Many artists came from Catholic or Jewish backgrounds and have no interest in listening to Democrats ruling like a king.

>>48910 >>48911 Is? Nomura? For this is it the issue of male creators not making female characters with depth and complexity and change? As well as how most to all women in their stories must have Double-D and up jugs once they come of age? Also what's making a comeback? DEI? I feel that there is an interest to have female action heroes. Question is if they have depth and complexity, if they grow and change, and if there's more beyond just being a strong empowered woman. If they can have flaws, question themselves, have interests and change and become different. Having them as a bland action protagonist is a problem.

I also ask just how I can do a story with sexy women and have them with personality and growth beyond being sexy, comfortable with their body and not minding wearing little to no clothes. I think there can be works with fanservice, thing is can it be more than just an excuse for women in tight, revealing outfits?

>>48933 I feel like there's no interest in complex characters in expansion stories. The issue is that complex female characters don't get high ratings no matter how many times advocates pitch a fit. I said that the expansion hero who oogles at women are making a comeback cause he's honest about it as opposed to "no way fag" Japanese characters.

>>48955 They aren’t supposed to be characters with their own motivations and personalities. They’re walking sex objects being presented to men who know no woman would ever consent to have sex with the , much less fat fetish sex. It’s not Weinstein level rapey, more Cosby level pro-sexual assault. Which explains Ned’s sexual assault advocacy.

I swear if >>47629 never used SA to describe size advocacy, this whole thread would have gone a different way.

>>48966 Blacks don't hold a paternalistic view towards sex. I don't know what you're trying to imply

>>48981 Did not realize Ned was black, he always seemed more like those suburban white supremacists that think they’re woke because they vote Biden

>>48967 I thought that at first, but no. I now realize I could have written literally anything and this thread still would have been taken over by trolls, schizos, and bots... Like every other worthy /gen discussion. The only threads that thrive in this toxic wasteland are self-hating FAs weeping over their lust for fat women, and people bitching about the site itself. Which I suppose is what I'm doing, oh well. I really would like to share my thoughts on Ned Sonntag and I appreciate your efforts to get this thing back on track. I hope you enjoyed my contributions as well and I apologize for insulting you. But I just can't sift through the bullshit anymore.

>>48985 You did this. Stop trying to act like a victim.

>>48988 Kisame here. I told him that those SA advocates have been replaced by the hamplanets that goes to Whole Foods, Trader Joe's. They don't eat at those shit ball diners off Merrick Road

The other part of finding Sonntag's art is that not all of his stuff has BBWs. I was labeling other projects he did that would likely lack BBWs. He apparently did work for Marvel, Scooby Doo comics and Betty Boop, no way these works would have BBWs. Best case maybe a minor BBW character. Just want to point out why I ask, so when I search for work Sonntag did, I know what has BBWs and what doesn't and for others too to know where he did BBW art.

>>48994 Wtf did you just request?????!

>>48995 Just BBW art drawn by Sonntag. Just saying what to avoid in terms of searching. Just what stuff he did that would likely lack BBW art.

>>48991 Krogers is more popular than ever with the bbws. It’s a step up from Arby’s at this point.

>>48909 >I read somewhere that the underground comic artists were advocating for sexual assault at to various times. You say that like it’s a bad thing. I say give the women what they want. Let them eat cake and so forth.

>>49007 As I see it, sexual assault isn’t not that bad if it’s in art. I never heard of Sontag catching a case so I’m inclined to say it’s fine to consume his rape porn if that’s your thing.

>>49016 Qanon was talking about the Soros backed Dems because the art world is a magnet for artsy fartsy types. Noem would be popular if she didn't shoot her dog.

If you want a serious answer, undegroudncomix have always been filed with shady heroes. Conservatives already have Supes, Captain America and all the other types. Ned is a Hank Ketcham cartoon boomer from a blue state. It's not the depression when cartoonists can get women to make sandwiches for them with their dick while striking. They've been party animals since Dave Fleischer. Fred Quimby and the other producer was sent to reign in Tex Avery.

>>48984 I dunno. Conservatism has gotten boring. It trained good vs evil for banking as well as getting rid of 7k credit debt. I don't care for politics. NYC has been liberal for decades. It's just a working class mid-size city without the tourists.

>>48574 >>48567 >>48633 >>48634 >t. Hasan/Kendrick fans ✊🏿 🇵🇸 🍉 Having sex with a 17-year-old in a state where the age of consent is 17 isn't rape, retard. Take your soy Zoomer SJW wokescold shit elsewhere. Pedophilia means 12 and under, by the way. Stop getting all your information from triggered soccer moms on Twitter. No wonder you didn't like Seinfeld; you're not smart enough to get it. "Nyooo you can't have legal sex with 17-year-olds! Muh high school!" Shut the fuck up, bitch. Move to some shithole country with a higher age of consent if you're such a repressed twat (especially you, Netherlander, since the age of consent in your country is even lower). Of course you complain about "muh R slur." A word's not a slur just because it hurts your witto fee-fees, retard. Nigga isn't the N word. That's "nigger," nigger. Imagine being such a fucking retarded nigger that you unironically support Amber Turd. She was proven to have literally doctored a photo to make herself look injured, you braindead, retarded faggot. For the record, Ned is a retarded, woke Marxist just like you guys, and would probably love you all, despite the fact that you'd hate him for being a white man. He's even a fedora-wearing faggot like you guys are. I've met him in real life. He's utterly intolerable. Thankfully he blocked me pretty quickly on Facebook. >>47730 What program did you use to de-warp it?

>>49057 Whenever someone uses pedophilia, it's often whenever the person is under 18. For those 13-17, the term ephebophilia is used. You are right, as much of a bleeding heart I am, I can acknowledge that if someone sleeps with a 17 year old in a state where that's the age of consent, legally they have done nothing wrong, but morally, they have done something bad. Same in places where the age of consent is 14, 15,16, technically nothing wrong was committed. Not advocating for teenage brides, just describing something that's a legal gray area. So if a celebrity had an underage girlfriend in a place with different age of consent laws, they aren't doing something illegal so we can't throw them in jail. I wouldn't want to do this, I'd prefer to be with adult women. I don't know what Sonntag's politics would be. I thought that if he did underground comix, he would have had left leaning views if he hung around that sort of crowd, though I don't doubt some of them were conservative, economically or socially.

>>49061 I guess technically pedophilia is 10 and under, like Muhammed, hebephilia is 11-14, and ephebophilia is 15-17.

>>49061 >morally, they have done something bad That's just your opinion, and it's an unpopular one, or the law would be different. It's not like 1 year would make a big difference, regardless. You should campaign for raising the age of consent to 25 or something if that's what you think is right and you think I'm wrong that your opinion is unpopular.

>>49063 God damn you write like a whiny suburban bitch. Get a Time Machine to 1989 and ask your parents to hug you for once.

16 is objectively the best AOC. Girls get their first period at the latest somewhere in their 14th year of life, at that point the amount of fertile eggs in the ovaries are at their maximum but their growth spurt hasn't finished yet. 16 then seems like a good compromise considering females roughly stop developing at 16 and males 2 years later. Let's say, if a 18 year is dating 14 or 15 year old that person is at the mercy of the parent's consent who can chose to report it or not, which is fair. Finding "barely legal" girls attractive isn't weird, on the other hand specifically only lusting after "barely legal" girls suggest issues. This why I don't think Kendrick won the rap battle, Drake's clearly isn't specifically lusting after teens, pic related.

>>49057 Damn. GenX turned into grumpy boomers overnight.

Veering away from a gross topic, Anyone think Artists on Patreon would be the modern equivalent to underground artists? That they make short comics with their own OCs, do stuff injecting their own kinks into it and it can range from sexy bikini pics to explicit material. I would say the difference is artists using existing fictional characters and OCs, as well as fans being more direct with what they make. Either by voting on stuff for them to do, or commissioning stuff for them draw.

>>49078 I doubt it. Patreon is banning internet porn to please credit card companies.

>>49066 absofuckinglutely not

>>49091 This all circles back to the original question of supporting art that advocates for sexual assault. Credit card companies are reticent to fund artists that draw stories where women gain deadly amounts of weight for the sexual gratification of a man…especially if it’s mediated by consent robbing phenomenon such as hypnosis, ghostly mind control, etc. these sorts stories are more or less paranormal date rape drugs (basically a moral half step up from kidnapping a woman and fattening her in captivity).

>> What part of it as a fantasy is hard to process? Plus the women aren't real people. There are different artists with different things they focus on. Some focus on women fattened up against their will. Some focus on women embracing their size. Some women don't care or focus on how big they get. Plus it's a fantasy, what about BDSM stories where someone discovers they like to be belittled or be someone's sex property? Why aren't we saying this stuff advocates rape or abusive relationships? Unless a good chunk of the people who consume this act out horrific stuff in real life, we probably have nothing to worry about. I also want to make sure that if something does happen, it's a contained event and not an ongoing problem.

>>49103 I’m on your side. Ned was a pioneer at treating fat women as subjects in their debasement and not just objects acted upon. Ie this cartoon where ethnically coded lizard people important a fat woman’s elbow: with her consent and for fair pay.

Seinfeld fans are truly the most fragile snowflakes

>>49167 Fetish Art nowadays is an adult daycare center